Here is today's discussion of the afore referenced video which depicts Albert Woodfox, 64, and Herman Wallace, 69, who were placed in "Closed Cell Restriction (CCR)" in Louisiana State Penitentiary - known as Angola Prison - since they were convicted of the murder of a prison guard in 1972;
The first poster after we placed the video on our FB was a young lady hereafter referred as PGS;
PGS: I agree with you up to a point, R However, in other countries, they would have automatically been put to death for killing the prison guard. Many other countries have much harsher penalties. In other countries, they would not have been able to kill a prison guard because since they were found guilty of armed robbery originally, they would have had their hands cut off. I'm not condoning our system. We have many "kinks" that need to be reviewed. Just saying that it really is far worse in many other countries.
My replies, hereafter referred to as R
R: This IS NOT "other countries"..we have a constitutional guarantee AGAINST cruel and unusual punishment..r u not familiar with the 8th amendment to The U.S. Constitution...that goes for ALL citizens, even those behind bars.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wi
Now enters a third poster, hereafter referred to as JJ;
JJ;I will forever believe that if you kill someone intentionally you should die as well...period...what you take away from another you should lose as well. I don't care what country it is. This nation can barely take care of those who are NOT criminals (including murderers) and we spend a fortune to ensure criminals get health care, television, education, clothing, food, and in many cases are taught a trade they never use. I think that money could be much better spent...if you are a third time offneder, a murder or rapist - you are a waste of Amwewrican tax dollars...sorry if that offends.
R;There was no proof that these men killed anyone.
JJ;If there was no proff then I gree that it is unacceptable...I thought they were convicted and that was how they came to be there. I am proud to be an American and I recognize and I am proud of everyone's right to their own opinion. It's one of the things that makes this country great. We are blessed with the right not to agree on everything brcause of the sacrifices of those who gave their lives for that and many other freedoms. I have no choice at this time but I don't want to support the lifestyle of murders and rapists. You have the right to do that if you want to though. GOd bless America!
R;Even if they were guilty, solitary confinement for 40 years? They are only being treated that way because of racism.
Enter a fourth poster hereafter referred to as SB;
SB; And they're bringing it up now?! How could no one bring this up in 40 years....
R; @JJ; "I think that money could be much better spent...if you are a third time offneder, a murder or rapist - you are a waste of Amwewrican tax dollars...sorry if that offends."
The above referenced post can be assumed to be exactly as appears, spelling, punctuation, and intellectually...Not to mention the smell of racism. You've never heard of 'The Innocence Project?' Over 260 death penalty cases overturned to date! I guess in your case it should simply be called 'The Ignorance Project!' In 2010, the Innocence Project received 3,120 new requests for assistance from prisoners with claims of innocence. There is no way of knowing how many innocent people are behind bars, but even if only one percent of the over two million Americans behind bars were innocent, that would mean 20,000 people are serving time for crimes they didn’t commit. These wrongfully convicted men and women are turning to the Innocence Project for help. The Innocence Project does not attempt to evaluate whether a prisoner looks guilty or innocent on paper. Instead, we analyze each case to see if DNA evidence might be available and whether that DNA evidence could be definitive enough to prove innocence.
JJ;Good job - improving the criminal justice system is a worthy cause. In the meantime - it is what it is and this ignorant conservative American believes in capital punishment.
R;2010 YEAR IN REVIEW: "JANUARY...As the year begins, the Innocence Project is actively evaluating nearly 10,000 cases..FEBRUARY...Innocence Project client (and african american) Freddie Peacock is exonerated through DNA testing 34 years after his wrongful conviction for rape. MARCH Three states introduce arson resolutions to prevent wrongful convictions based on outdated and invalid arson science; Ohio passes major package of reforms on wrongful
convictions..APRIL Innocence Project client Frank Sterling is exonerated through DNA testing after over 17 years of wrongful imprisonment for murder; Innocence Project social workers spearhead effort to bring over 80 exonerees to the
hearing on police lineups....(Does the name "Reuben 'Hurricane' Carter" ring a bell?)...24 years in jail...WRONGFULLY CONVICTED!...JULY The U.S. House of Representatives passes legislation in support of a national criminal justice reform commission.. AUGUST Rhode Island begins review of eyewitness identification procedures, resulting in the statewide embrace of reforms...SEPTEMBER Oklahoma Justice Commission is created after years of advocacy by the Innocence Project and local partners. The Justice Commission will review the state’s criminal justice system and propose reforms to prevent wrongful convictions..OCTOBER Fox Searchlight’s “Conviction,” premieres starring Hilary Swank. “Conviction” tells the story of Betty Anne Waters, who put herself through law school and teamed with the
Innocence Project to prove her brother’s innocence in 2001...NOVEMBER DNA testing secured by the Innocence Project seriously undermines the legitimacy of Claude Jones’ Texas execution in 2000...DECEMBER Innocence Network announces that 29 wrongfully convicted people were exonerated
by Network projects in 2010....SHALL I GO ON??....No answer from 'JJ' Normally this is what occurs when you approach ignorant, uneducated right wing fundamentalists or right wing religious zealots who spout right wing authoritarianism with an intellectual, progressive, libertarian argument. Just like as in the previous threads relating intellectual arguments with alt med pseudo-science quacks, either silence, anecdotal "evidence" or if they are somewhat politically savvy, they will attempt "Proof By Assertion;" Proof by assertion, sometimes informally known, as proof by repeated assertion is a logical fallacy in which a proposition is repeatedly restated regardless of contradiction. Sometimes this may be repeated until challenges dry up, at which point it is asserted as fact due its not being contradicted. (argumentum ad nauseum). In other cases its repetition may be cited as evidence of its truth, in a variant of the appeal to authority or appeal to belief fallacies; (Right Wing Fundamentalism; RWF or Right Wing Authoritarianism; RWA )
R; JJ, let me guess, you voted for George W Bush & you LIVE IN TX?..You think Jimmy Carter & Barack Obama are the two worst American Presidents ever? Your a 'staunch supporter' of 'Ronal Reagan' and 'Reaganonics?'...Oh, and I forgot, of course... "GOD bless America" You BELIEVE IN GOD? How am I doing so far?....you actually believe in god, and heaven...and Jesus is 'his son'
PGS; Guess no one else needs to state their opinions, R has it covered himself.
R; P, and everyone, for me, this is about more than me or you or others expressing their opinions. I have been a member and volunteer for Amnesty International since the mid 1970's. As such, I believe in taking actions to correct situations that are abuses of 'human rights' which has nothing to do with comparing our human rights performance to that of other countries. In this case, one of the actions I have taken is to post this on Facebook to help inform people that this situation is happening and inform them that Amnesty International is asking the US to end this cruel and unnecessary treatment. I do this with the hope that the people who see it here will also take actions that will help end this abuse of human rights. Here is a link to a description of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, a declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on December 10th 1948 in Paris. The Declaration arose directly from the experience of the Second World War and represents the first global expression of rights to which all human beings are inherently entitled. (paraphrased)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wi
PGS; Thank you R, but I am very well aware of the Declaration of Human Rights. You have missed my point earlier on in the discussion and that is okay. By posting something on FB is taking action? Yes, action to inform, so then you are leaving it to others who read FB to actually take the action needed to end the abuse of human rights? What action, besides posting, are you doing to change things for these inmates?
R; Donating my time and money. Continuing to advocate for the values expressed above and by Project Reason, The Innocence Project, Amnesty International, The ACLU, WikeLeaks, and NRDC.. all of whom I have in the past 30 years donated $$ to and shall continue to donate substantial $$ to as well as my time, intellect and contacts/connections. I began in 1975 at the age of 17, volunteering basically as a gofer in order to join Bob on The Rolling Thunder Revue to raise awareness & money for the release of 'Hurricane' Carter. Long before DNA testing or even The Innocence Project was an entity or became 'fashionable.' I did it then & I continue to do it because it is what I believe. As I get older and closer to my own death I continually ad new causes as the ONLY inheritors of my estate, which though not tremendous is still substantial. Currently it is to be split by Embryonic Stem Cell Research, NRDC, The Innocence Project, Project Reason, The ACLU and Amnesty Int'l. I will continue to work effortlessly as well as advocating for what I know is right. P, what else would you have me do? I ask in all sincerity. If I am missing something, please enlighten me. if I believe you to be correct, I will adjust my energies forthwith. I know I may sound fanatical, however I believe that strongly is these particular issues. Lastly, don't discount FB posting as a means to begin a peaceful revolution/resolution to a social injustice. Look what happened beginning on December 18, 2010 in Tunisia. It all began with Mohamed Bouaziz, a Tunisian street vendor, and has now spread to Algeria, Jordan, Egypt, Yemen and Lybia. GW has 650+/- FB friends, more than enough to begin another surge against socio-political irregularities or unethical, improper or inappropriate treating of individuals by the state, ANY state. A reference to my old friend Gil-Scott Heron who passed away 14 days ago & who once infamously said in song;'The Revolution Will Not Be Televised,' well Gil my friend, you lived to see the day where not only is it BEING televised, via the Internet it is being streamed into our living rooms in real time!
Which again, as is the usual response when you encounter an argument from a RWA or RWF, they either go with "Proof By Assertion" or when intellectually dominated, silence.....
